Minutes 29 June 2017
Date: June 29, 2017
See also the Agenda and the IRC Log
Present: Garth Conboy, Tzviya Siegman, Dave Cramer, Wolfgang Schindler, Tobias Fischer, Bill Kasdorf, Matt Garrish, Peter Krautzberger, Toshiaki Koike, Iris Febres, Brady Duga, Rachel Comerford, Dan Sanicola, Laurent Le Meur, Jean Kaplansky, Julian Calderazi
Regrets: Bernard Heiser, Luc Audrain, Mira Bossowska, Laura Brady, Romain Deltour
Guests:
Chair: Dave Cramer
Scribe(s): Tzviya, Rachel
Dave Cramer: the official formation of the pub wg is the big news
Dave Cramer: https://www.w3.org/publishing/groups/publ-wg/
Dave Cramer: https://www.w3.org/blog/2017/06/bringing-publications-to-the-web-first-steps/
Dave Cramer: we had our first F2F in NYC
Dave Cramer: https://github.com/w3c/publ-wg/issues
Dave Cramer: I encourage all member institutions to join the working group and contribute to the discussion of the issues in the issue tracker - link above the other big upcoming event is TPAC there will be a publishing summit there, somewhat like the old IDPF conference this is in November in the bay area
Tzviya Siegman: tpac https://www.w3.org/2017/11/TPAC/
Bill Kasdorf: Publishing Summit: https://www.w3.org/publishing/events/summit2017
Tzviya Siegman: https://github.com/w3c/publ-cg/wiki/epubcheck-TF-meeting-minutes-and-summaries
Tzviya Siegman: epubcheck tast force is ahead of schedule we finished everything in the June schedule site and test suite cleanup tasks are complete. Romain has submitted a draft for step by step cleanup July and August will be dedicated to cleanup, then maintenance release, then updating for 3.1
Dave Cramer: please attend task force meetings and volunteer
Tzviya Siegman: f2f and phone time is minimal, most of the work takes place online Irisamelia has volunteered to work on the marketing experience
Rachel Comerford: We have had a few meetings. There's a proposal on the table to break up EPUB for Ed according to which standards they align with
Dave Cramer: current draft of EPUPUB: https://w3c.github.io/publ-cg/education/epub-education.html
Rachel Comerford: I'd like to propose that we break down the specs and actively propose the specs to other orgs
Dave Cramer: https://github.com/w3c/publ-cg/issues/4
Rachel Comerford: I have a list of people who have volunteered for EPUB for Ed. Please contact me if you would like to particapte
Rachel Comerford: There are also some open issues that i'd like to close out first issue relates to epub:type vocabulary. This should go to WG because it relates to DPUB-ARIA
Tzviya Siegman: let's touch base so that the issue doesn't get lost
Dave Cramer: https://github.com/w3c/publ-cg/issues/6
Dave Cramer: The other issues are related to LTI, so I think we can just close them
Bill Kasdorf: My concern is that these things will just get tossed, and these docs have useful information. I want to make sure that the info gets preserved
Dave Cramer: I don't think there is any concern that IMS will forget about LTI integration
Bill Kasdorf: My concern is that someone coming to w3c won't know about this
Dave Cramer: once complete, we can add links
Rachel Comerford: Good solution. I have an additional question about roles and responsibilities of different orgs in this
Dave Cramer: Who is responsible for inter-group coordination? maybe this is the BG?
Bill Kasdorf: Perhaps the edupub alliance should continue to exist, but that org needs oversight
Dave Cramer: the last call mentioned the need for the idpf's ongoing page
Dave Cramer: http://idpf.org/ongoing
Tzviya Siegman: the business group agreed to look over and assess the ongoing page but not to maintain -this remains unresolved
Dave Cramer: https://w3c.github.io/publ-cg/
Garth Conboy: (I predict lack of maintenance of ongoing page… being current EPUB spec on IDPF site is still 3.0.x)
Garth Conboy: ... in terms of how these relate to each other, it's unlikely that someone in the w3c is going to take ownership of this (relationship to IMS, IETF...) but someone might take ownership of a best practices document
Garth Conboy" ... an organization like BISG might be the best place to do it, but the CG is not the right group to decide this
Bill_Kasdorf: I think it's likely this will be well received by BISG
Dave Cramer: is there an international analog to BISG?
Bill_Kasdorf: no, but there are sister organizations
Jean Kaplansky: eBound Canada is the org. in Canada
Tzviya Siegma: we agree that we need to raise this to the BG as a problem
Dave Cramer: https://github.com/w3c/publ-cg/issues/3
Wolfgang Schindler: I would suppose that "Börsenverein des deutschen Buchhandels" (German Booksellers and Publishers Association) is the German equivalent to BISG
Dave Cramer: https://github.com/w3c/publ-cg/wiki/Rendering
Dave Cramer: I've heard lots of requests from publishers for images that take up full screen
Dave Cramer: this has come up in reflowable books such as cookbooks
Dave Cramer: one use case is to mix a fixed layout page in other reflowable content. This is allowed in the spec but not widely supported in reading systems
Julian Calderazi: dave we depend fully on reading systems about this.
Brady Duga: the other case is a travel guide with a beautiful header that has a picture of the sunrise - the content is reflowable but you want to drop the edges. Fixed layout does not work here
Dave Cramer: these things are illegal in html, but it almost sounds like processing instructions from the old days. where can we put this information?
Brady Duga: We could put this in the meta-inf or something, if it's a global setting. it's probably not required for HTML/CSS. If they designed part of the book that way, they can design the whole book that way
Wolfgang Schindler: could the info perhaps be in additional attributes on top of HTML?
Brady Duga: I'd have to look at more content to assess whether this would be problematic for actual content in newer EPUBs
Dave Cramer: We should ask people for samples
Jean Kaplansky: I would like to make clarification. We are talking about viewports, not pages. it's a distinction that we need to make in taking about digital there are things we need to do to facilitate the different format
Dave Cramer: most reading system paginate, so there are pages in some
Wolfgang Schindler: FXL related to viewports of different sizes will be a problem.
Jean Kaplansky: most reading systems have pagination available but quite a few offer the "one big scroll approach" so we really are talking about viewports
Bill Kasdorf: another distinction is pre-paginated vs. dynamically paginated
Dave Cramer: we're talking about impacting the interface without touching the content it sounds like pursuing this idea of an image taking up the whole viewport of a reading system is worth pursuing
Naomi Kennedy: the reader needs the ability to set their own margins on the images that aren't bleeding
Bill Kasdorf: if there's an opportunity to take over a viewport you need a way to escape like when you go full screen in a presentation and need to get out there needs to be a built in convention
Dave Cramer: we wouldn't suppress the chrome entirely
Tzviya Siegman: what are we trying to accomplish - this CG is for maintenance. Is this a proposal for the CSS WG?
Dave Cramer: I don't think this is CSS - it's a negotiation btwn the author and the reading system. As an epub feature, this sounds like what might happen is that there is a new rendition in the pkg this might be applicable to epub3.11 or epub 3.2
Brady Duga: in talking about viewports, we're talking about how big the viewport should be we could address it by leaving margins that are not included in the viewport
Dave Cramer: the epub is prob being rendered btwn 5,000 divs and iframes. Maybe I can work with Naomi and duga and see where this goes?
Garth Conboy: most reading systems don't support mixing fixed and flowing - it's a matter of guilting reading systems into supporting this. It's a chicken and egg problem. we don't do it because it's not supported, it's not supported because we don't do it