Reviewed n11 #12
Reviewed n11 #12
Conversation
…shed 6/3 chords, which resolve finally to G in m.3 (the chain could have continued if G was replaced by G-sharp on beat 1.5 of m.3). I hear the B-flat as its enharmonic A-sharp, potentially leading back to the dominant of e minor and completing the lament progression to V. Instead, we head towards G major!
…wn as VI.V, or V/VI here? It is a strongly confirmed modulation, but it is within a phrase that begins and ends in E minor
…moving to B major. I hear this as a PAC, does I/V reflect that well enough or should it be shown in the key of V.?
…e dominant pedal going into m.29. More sustain/instrumental color than actual pedal tone?
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close #20 |
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I pretty much agree with your reading. One question which Johannes might be able to answer is still open (see my comment below on 24).
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…labels to show the V in the key of the tonic as a pickup like the V in the key of VI in m.10; I like your reading of this. As to what kind of cadence we have, I agree that the arrival on the tonic in the key of VI is much clearer and metrically stressed. I think some of the decision comes from deciding whether the V chord is 'before' the new phrase as the ending to the previous phrase, or 'before' it as an anacrusis. Different performances might make this decision differently. Part of this effect captures the 'frightening' affect; the shift to C major has the rug pulled out from under it, and we are suddenly faced with a return to the dark and chromatic land of E minor. The ambiguity is part of the charm of this moment, but it does make this a difficult decision for us. I would defer to Johannes as this is an instance of 'very odd cadence'
… could use beginning and ending labels {} without a cadence to demark this as 'a section', but not one that is concluded definitively with a cadence
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Thanks Tal! I've added a few changes and left open a few questions following discussion of the very elusive nature of cadences in this movement! |
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regarding 12, I do think that postponing the end of the phrase to the last beat is no crime and makes some sense. But it is indeed an interesting moment... 21-24, this might indeed be the better solution. I think that after the issue is cleared with Johannes, we could merge this one as well. |
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Part of what also makes the moment in m.12 so tricky is the held notes from the downbeat to the offbeat, making this sound like something residual while also a necessary turnaround to get us back into E minor. I would be totally cool with whatever we decides would work best. I think if we wanted to note any cadence here I do think that you're right about the cadence in C major being the clearer one. I could see having an IAC in C major, and then letting the mysterious dominant serve as the phrase beginning as it 'belongs' to the upcoming E minor! |
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And 21-24 works for me this way! So I'm all good to merge this one once we decided what best to do with m.12 |
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well.. the 6/4 closing m. 12 is for sure not a dominant up beat (and does not belong to the following phrase). If it cannot be separated "in between phrases, which is my preferred solution, I would not mind the phrase closing after it (as your annotation initially suggested). We must accept the fact that our annotations are somewhat "handicapped" when it comes to expressing such subtleties and ambiguous moments. And I think it doesn't really matter what we decide, because the annotations would never be self-explanatory either way and will need a more elaborate explanation for making. I think we could merge it now. |
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Please merge. I have no further comments. |
This one had a few chords that make you think! I left a lot of comments; thank you!