Moving from Z-Stick Gen5 to Z-stick 7

[Micka41]

Hi,

How can I moving from Z-Stick Gen5 to Z-stick 7 (about 90 devices) ?

Thanks

[robertsLando]

AFAIK the only way is to removve all the devices from the first stick and add them back one by one to the other

[drobtravels]

I think my zwave stick is too old to support NVM backup... Although ZwaveJS did spit out a file..

Anyways I can't seem to make the 500 primary again. Any way to use in zwave js when controller node id is not 1, or do I need to recreate my network?

[drobtravels]

Nevermind.. was able to do the NVM restore in ZwaveJS (despite PC controller saying its not supported) and am back up and running on original 500 series stick. Will wait until you release your new tool to proceed. Thanks for the heads up!

[AlCalzone]

Any way to use in zwave js when controller node id is not 1, or do I need to recreate my network?

It doesn't care about the node id. Only about being the primary controller.

[GrizzlyAK]

If you can wait a couple of days (and have an NVM backup), I'm working on a tool to make this easier.

Hey, @AlCalzone, are you still looking for backup files to test? I seem to recall you were looking for some, but my stick had the old architecture and wouldn't work. I tried to update my FW on my original Z-Stick Gen5 updated to work with the Pi on USB3, but never could. I reached out to Chris at Aeotec and he sent me a new 5+ with the new FW already installed, and I just loaded my config on it and have it up and running. If you still need samples, let me know and I can send you one.

[AlCalzone]

The migration is now included in zwavejs2mqtt: #3906 (comment)
There still seems to be something strange when moving from 500 -> 700 series, but I haven't had the time to look into it yet. I've got backup files though.

[Hedda]

Z-Wave has the possibility to add a second controller to the network, then transfer it the primary role. Unfortunately this is not yet supported by zwave-js, maybe you can do that with Silabs' PC Controller software.

@AlCalzone Have you given any further thoughts on adding support for a secondary controller to Z-Wave JS?

That is to among other things add the possibility to migrate without using the existing NVM backup and NVM restore method.

Personally, I would however love to always have a secondary controller installed and online for redundancy.

[niemyjski]

Any updates on this?

[niemyjski]

Yes, I was looking for a way to do this via UI or official documentation. An automated process or having a button to backup and restore in the ui would be amazing (I use HA)... I have the original aeotec gen5 (there are multiple revisions) so I wasn't sure if I could even do a migration as I don't have even firmware updates available via their website (the later revisions have firmware updates). But I can do an offline backup but it's in binary format.

Is an nvm backup possible? If so how?

[robertsLando]

I speak about zwave-js UI, in order to do an nvm backup/restore just go to control panel > advanced actions > nvm backup/restore

[Hedda]

Yes, I was looking for a way to do this via UI or official documentation. An automated process or having a button to backup and restore in the ui would be amazing (I use HA).

I agree that would be a very nice feature if a such feature existed and is maybe even something that Home Assistant users will come to expect now that Home Assistant has implemented such features for Zigbee.

Off-topic but FYI; Home Assistant can do migration from Zigbee2MQTT to ZHA + migration from old adapter in ZHA to new adapter in ZHA:

https://skyconnect.home-assistant.io/migrate-zigbee-zha/ (Guide on how to migrate from a Zigbee2MQTT network to ZHA using ZHA).

https://skyconnect.home-assistant.io/migrate-zigbee-backup/ (Guide on how to migrate a backup from Zigbee2MQTT to ZHA using ZHA).

https://skyconnect.home-assistant.io/migrate-zigbee-zha-only/ (Guide on how to migrate old adapter to new adapter if already using ZHA).

Note! Those guides were specifically written for Home Assistant SkyConnect (ezsp) adapter and are for migration to/inside ZHA integration.

Might inspire other ideas but those guides are for example not meant to be used for migrating from ZHA to Zigbee2MQTT, nor migrating between different adapters if continuing to use Zigbee2MQTT (e.g. not for migrating old to new Zigbee adapter if using Zigbee2MQTT).

PS: Again, Home Assistant's own ZHA integration depends for backup and restore command from zigpy/zigpy-cli to migrate Zigbee network, however both that ZHA integration and Zigbee2MQTT use the same "Open ZigBee Coordinator Backup Format" standard for its backup files.

[GrizzlyAK]

Just make an nvm backup of the gen5 controller and restore that to the 700 series controller

Hi Daniel, is this a reality now? Has anyone done this with the Aeotec sticks themselves (500 -> 700)? I'm still on a 5+and would love to upgrade to 700 if it is a seamless process. It sounded like @AlCalzone was working on a tool, but some problems existed with 500->700. I don't suspect it is an easy problem to solve, especially given the various controllers. I loathe the thought of rebuilding my network from scratch. Cheers.

[AlCalzone]

Yeah, it's been for over a year now:
https://github.com/zwave-js/node-zwave-js/blob/master/CHANGELOG_v8.md#890-2021-12-22

The initial version saw some revisions though, but most quirks have been solved since June 22: https://github.com/zwave-js/node-zwave-js/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md#940-2022-06-10

For the Z-Stick 5(+), you need it to be on firmware 1.2 though, otherwise Z-Wave JS doesn't understand the NVM format.

[GrizzlyAK]

THIS is outstanding! I'll see if I can figure out what version my FW is. I'm pretty sure I've done an NVM backup before after I got my 5+ replacement. Thanks again for all the work you and Daniel do to make ZWave the place to be. This changelog is a testament to the amount of effort put in.

BTW, I'm looking for an alternative to my Paypal sponsorship as that is where I consolidate my payments for many things. GitHub changing this was a really BAD move for everyone (but them). Cheers.

[niemyjski]

If you are using only ha, what's the easiest process to do the migration?

[kpine]

https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/zwave_js/#how-do-i-switch-between-the-official-z-wave-js-add-on-and-the-z-wave-js-ui-add-on

[robertsLando]

Thanks @GrizzlyAK ❤️ About GH paypal move I agree with you and sincerly I dunno why this happened.

BTW Patreon still supports PayPal: https://patreon.com/user?u=16906849&utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=join_link

[GrizzlyAK]

@robertsLando I sent you an email re: Patreon.

[AlCalzone]

Commenting again, so I can mark this as an answer:

1. Make sure the Z-Stick Gen 5 is on firmware 1.2. You may need a Windows machine for this.
2. Perform an NVM backup using Z-Wave JS UI
3. Plug the Z-Stick 7 in
4. Restore the previous NVM backup

The opposite direction is also possible.

[AlCalzone]

Try restarting Z-Wave JS UI or reloading the page.

[GuiPoM]

Thank you. A restart solved that minor issue :)

[niemyjski]

@AlCalzone what about First Generation Z-Stick Gen 5 which never got a firmware update? These were the popular ones on amazon (I have 2)

[niemyjski]

@AlCalzone No there is no firmware update. Here is a snippet of an email chain with aeotec support:

My response

I couldn't get either to work but I think I know the problem. In 2018 and 2019 I bought the gen5 stick. Both backs look like this and so I don't think they are the gen5+ :... It was the most popular zwave stick still on amazon :\ Does this have a firmware update and what is the difference to the gen5+?

Their response

Unfortunately, there is no way to update from a Z-Stick Gen5 to a Z-Stick 7 in any case as the memory format is too different so the transfer of networks becomes impossible. - Only method is to unpair and re-pair devices unfortunately moving onto series 700.
​
It is an older generation Z-Stick Gen5 based on the plastics on the device itself, but the firmware update and SDK differences are negligible for typical use and you probably won't notice too many differences between the versions if at all any.

My response

Ok, thanks for the info. Is it possible to get a firmware update for the gen5 with the fixes of the gen5+

Their response

Gen+ and New Z-Stick Gen5+ are hardware changes that allow the connection to the USB chipsets used which is the primary difference, firmware update themselves won't resolve the issue. I can advise how to modify the hardware if you are seeing issues with connection to RPi4 and if you are comfortable with resoldering a resistor on the Z-Stick Gen5.

[Hedda]

Sounds like they misunderstood your question or you were unclear with them which confused them, (you should really not have mentioned Z-Stick 7 as from their point of view that has nothing to do with what you should be asking about). As you do not want to upgrade Aeotec Z-Stick Gen5 ZW090 with firmware made for Z-Stick 7 (which it sounds like they are replying to). Instead, clarify to them that all you want to do is to flash your Aeotec Z-Stick Gen5 ZW090 stick with "z-stick gen5 v1-02 firmware". What you do after you updated your Aeotec Z-Stick Gen5 ZW090 stick with "z-stick gen5 v1-02 firmware" has nothing directly to do with them. That is, the migration that done with zwave-js is nothing that Aeotec official support themselves.

https://aeotec.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/6000252294-z-stick-gen5-v1-02-firmware-update

https://community.home-assistant.io/t/aeotec-z-stick-gen5-zw090-new-firmware-update/357972

[AlCalzone]

@niemyjski you're mixing up a couple of things.

1. Gen5 and Gen5+ are different in that they have a hardware modification. Gen5 is violating the USB standard and needs a powered USB hub to work with a Raspberry Pi 4. Gen5+ is fine in this regard.
2. Gen5 and Gen5+ originally had different firmwares. Gen5 was on 1.0 I think, Gen5+ had an updated firmware v1.2
3. The link I posted you above does contain a firmware update for the Gen5 (non +) to firmware v1.2:
   
   Unfortunately this page mentions Gen5+ pretty prominently, so a lot of people are confused.
4. And last but not least, your stick must be on firmware 1.2, so Z-Wave JS can migrate its NVM to the format the 700 series uses. I don't think that the Aeotec support knows about this method.

[niemyjski]

Thanks for the clarification! Yeah, I was asking them about newer firmware and how to upgrade to 7 series. This convo was from last year.

[Hedda]

Yeah as far as Aeotec support will be aware there are no seamless/lossless migration paths that they provide in a first-party solution. Obviously, the zwave-js migration path method is an unofficial third-party method from Aeotec's point of view. Do not expect end-to-end help or knowledge from Aeotec support on how to migration from a Z-Wave 500 stick to a Z-Wave 700 stick or Z-Wave 800 stick.

[beno57]

Hi everyone,

I've a problem with my 700 zooz to restore NVM.
I've a gen5 and I updated the firmware with aeotec tools. Now I've a 1.2 FW on my gen5

I backuped a NVM on my gen5 but when I import the NVM on my gen7, I received an error with NVM convert

Error while calling restoreNVM: Invalid NVM JSON: Controller is part of another network but has no learned Home ID (ZW0281)

zwave-js-ui: 8.19.0.487524b
zwave-js: 11.0.0

Do you have an idea why I can't import the nvm file on my gen7 ?

many thx

[AlCalzone]

Fixed in yesterday's release: https://github.com/zwave-js/node-zwave-js/blob/master/CHANGELOG.md#1170-2023-07-27

[beno57]

Nice, thx for your reply :)