Rewrite for Zotero 5

[ericnchen]

I have installed the latest 5.0 beta for Zotero on a new computer and installed the latest version of Better Bib(La)Tex as well. The versions specifically are 5.0-beta.r39+bdec4b1 and 1.6.72, respectively.

Anyway, after installing Better Bib(La)Tex and restarting Firefox (45.3.0 ESR on CentOS 7) I received a JSON error though I didn't think to save the error. I went to Advance Settings and enabled Debug Mode for Better Bib(La)Tex and restarted Firefox. Now on restart, I get the following message:

 Better BibTeX has been disabled because it found Zotero undefined, but requires 4.0.28 or later.

I also can not edit any of the BBT options anymore because it also tells me that BBT has been disabled. The only thing I can do I presume is to just uninstall the extension from Firefox and reinstalling it and hoping it works.

Before I turned on debug mode BBT showed up in the Zotero options, at least. I was not able to export anything with BBT though. Selecting "export library" didn't provide BBT as one of my export options.

Is there a working version of BBT that will work with the 5.0 beta?

[retorquere]

There is currently not a version that works with 5.0, and I'm not certain whether there will be a compatible BBT at the release date. Zotero 5.0 is not just an incremental update to Zotero, it is really a wholly new program, and almost all non-trivial extensions will have to make extensive changes for 5.0.

Rewriting BBT to be compatible is going to be a substantial effort, partly because it moves far and wide beyond what Zotero officially allows extensions to do, but mostly because the database paradigm has changed, and BBT has some deep-rooted assumptions in that domain.

I currently lack the time to go heads-down on this and spend the time it would take to do this. I don't know exactly when I will be able to make the time, and there is also the matter that 5.0 is a transitional Zotero in any case -- there are already plans to move away from Firefox entirely to another platform (Electron), which would likely mean another substantial rewrite. Between my lack of time and the dynamic of the developments of Zotero, I'm going to wait until their plans solidify before I move (unless I suddenly get a month of nothing-to-do spare time, which is unlikely).

This is not a complaint about how Zotero moves BTW. I am unhappy with these moves because they impinge on my already cramped planning, but I understand why they are making these moves.

[ericnchen]

Thanks for the response!

[retorquere]

After a few attempts it looks like 5.0 is going to require essentially a full rewrite. With some 40k lines of code, this is going to take a while -- end of october at the very earliest, and very likely later than that.

[dbobak]

That is a very bad news. My entire workflow depends on stable BibTeX keys. Do you know any other possibility to have them in Zotero 5.0?

[retorquere]

None that I know of that don't require coding. I'm working on 5.0 compatibility, but it will require major changes to BBT. I don't have an ETA for this.

[retorquere]

(I'm juggling a full-time job, studies, a family and the work on BBT. I was doing OK with incremental updates to BBT, but the 5.0 port is not an incremental change. Basically everything is broken right now, and I'll need to fix/change everything before I see even parts of BBT work again, which makes it incredibly hard to judge how long this is going to take)

[dbobak]

Great, that you are working on it anyway. I will stick to Zotero 4.x as long as possible.

[steko]

@retorquere thank you for your continued efforts. As a devoted user, may I ask if funding would help you work on fixing BBT for Zotero 5.0?

[retorquere]

Truly appreciate the offer, but it wouldn't help. What I need is time, and my calendar has just flooded the last month. I hope to make progress during the holidays.

[adam3smith]

Hi @retorquere -- just to be able to give better feedback&support to potential users, do you have an update on this?

[retorquere]

I can't offer anything of substance at this point. I've started a full rewrite, but it's incredibly slow going.

[Frank-Zappa]

Was there any discussion to merge zotero-better-bibtex functions to Zotero 5.0 directly? I think, we should urge the Zotero dev team to consider it.

[adam3smith]

Some features of BBT make a lot of sense as an add-on. E.g. Zotero wouldn't want to expose anywhere close to as many preferences for bibtex as BBT does.
Some things will eventually happen but need more time -- stable editable citekeys most importantly.

Some things would be great but are probably just not high enough on the core devs agenda to realistically happen any time soon. Auto export is probably among those.

[retorquere]

Yeah, as long as space for cite keys isn't even present in the references, I wouldn't hold my breath for bbt integration.

BBT does have a baroque number of preferences, but all of them have sensible defaults. There's no need to have them exposed in Zotero - that could be the job of an extension. Just saying.

And there are things that really should have been separate extensions - stuff like auto-export really doesn't even belong inside bbt, but it's mostly there because it needed a caching system (zotero reference serialization is a really big bottleneck), and bbt had one, and I only need auto-export for bbt. Plus the serialization cache as it is now does some minor damage to the serialized objects by simplifying them to just data, no methods, so it's not safe for any and all translators.

I'd say that the serialization cache would be a real boon for zotero users that do frequent exports, and that a damage-free cache is possible inside zotero, but it's quite possible that only bbt users are doing frequent exports - other users just use zotero directly I'd venture to guess.

[ghost]

Are there any updates on this since Zotero 5 is out?

[retorquere]

Only that I've not given up on the idea. BBT requires a full rewrite for 5.0, BBT is a pretty complex beast, and the simple ports is tried have all failed so far.

[retorquere]

First thing I'm going to do is get my test framework back up. Without my tests I can't do anything. Next order of business will be adding the translators, but stuff like auto-export won't be there in the beginning.

[retorquere]

@JohnLukeBentley I need to reconsider the wiki in any case. I'll probably go back to gh-pages.

[JohnLukeBentley]

I'm a bit unclear about the relationship between gh-pages (https://pages.github.com/) and the wiki as is. I mean I see that:

• A page like https://github.com/retorquere/zotero-better-bibtex/wiki/Bundled-translators can be directly edited; but
• A page like https://github.com/retorquere/zotero-better-bibtex/wiki/Configuration/ is autogenerated from project files.

... on the matter of the basic choice between the two I think I'd prefer direct editing. I suppose this swings on whether you, the repository/account owner, prefer:

• Less friction for your users: making it more likely they'll make contributions to the wiki;
• More friction for your users: allowing you tighter control of the edits users make.

But there may well be other issues and reasons for going with gh-pages (https://pages.github.com/), whatever that is.

[retorquere]

Those assessments are correct. gh-pages allow for more flexibility in makeup of the page. I initially started with gh-pages, then moved to the wiki, but the wiki doesn't allow arranging the pages sidebar, nor auto-generating TOCs, and the wiki didn't ever really get much user edits; of the 265 edits in the history, all but 13 are mine (although TBH, 3 of those were yours, so thanks). There's also the possibility to use the wiki as a CMS and pump that into gh-pages.

[JohnLukeBentley]

Yeah, you'd want to be able to autogenerate TOCs. And by ...

the possibility to use the wiki as a CMS and pump that into gh-pages" ...

you mean gh-pages don't, natively, expose an interface for users (who aren't the repo/account holder) but there's a possible workaround?

And, yes, given the historical evidence that user edits are infrequent (in the case of this niche tool); preserve the need for users to directly edit the wiki is not pressing. At the very least users could suggest changes by posting issues.

[retorquere]

you mean gh-pages don't, natively, expose an interface for users (who aren't the repo/account holder)

They don't expose an interface for anyone, really. There's the online edit, which for a non holder forks the repo and allows creating a pull request. But the process does pose some hurdles for casual edits.

but there's a possible workaround?

In the sense that I could build a workaround.

And, yes, given the historical evidence that user edits are infrequent (in the case of this niche tool); preserve the need for users to directly edit the wiki is not pressing. At the very least users could suggest changes by posting issues.

Or pull requests.

[JohnLukeBentley]

Got the essence of it, thanks.

I happen to have taught myself Git in recent times. So, if the need arose, I might even enjoy having to make a pull request rather than a casual edit ... as an opportunity to further practice the dark art.

[retorquere]

For the time being, the wiki will suffice

[vtcarlino]

Hi, I have an issue concerning CAYW, using the Scannable-cite format. The following URL http://localhost:23119/better-bibtex/cayw?format=scannable-cite returns { | Akrich, et al., Sociologie de la traduction: textes fondateurs, 2006 | | | zu0:TJVCIMFC }.

BBT adds the title of the document ("Sociologie de la traduction ...") while it shouldn't. The result should be { | Akrich, et al., 2006 | | | zu0:TJVCIMFC }. Any idea ?

[retorquere]

@vtcarlino please open a new issue for that.

[vtcarlino]

@retorquere Done. Sorry to spam this thread!

[retorquere]

No worries

[TheoChristiaanse]

Will there be an xpi available in the near future? I've been forced upgraded to 5.0 would like to keep using better bibtex.

[adam3smith]

BBT 5 is released, .xpis are here: https://github.com/retorquere/zotero-better-bibtex/releases and auto-update.

[retorquere]

I hate asking for money for BBT, but the time has come: my MacBook Air is not really hacking it anymore, and in order to do decent cross-platform support, a MacBook is what I need. Anything you can spare towards that goal is very much appreciated.

[JohnLukeBentley]

I've just sent a nominal amount. I wish I was in a position to give the much greater sum you deserve.

[retorquere]

Jeez dude that's not nominal. Thanks!

[jrennstich]

Done. Sent the money. Sent from mobile device

…

On 21. Jan 2018, at 13:53, Emiliano Heyns ***@***.***> wrote: Jeez dude that's not nominal. Thanks! — You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread.

[cjpoor]

Hi Emiliano, Very happy to make a contribution. Thanks again for all you excellent work! Best regards, Chris. On 22 January 2018 at 03:42, Joachim K. Rennstich <[email protected]> wrote:

…

Done. Sent the money. Sent from mobile device > On 21. Jan 2018, at 13:53, Emiliano Heyns ***@***.***> wrote: > > Jeez dude that's not nominal. Thanks! > > — > You are receiving this because you were mentioned. > Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread. > — You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#555 (comment)>, or mute the thread <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AInAXwdmaWandA_E8JgR4G8jcZnQjUE2ks5tM0y-gaJpZM4JtLTL> .

[retorquere]

Dayum thanks you guys, I'm already 20% there!

[retorquere]

26% there, thanks guys! I am deeply grateful for the very generous contributions. For people that may stray in here (or long-time followers of this thread even) I want to stress that a) this should in no way be seen as an obligation, and b) I will for sure be paying part of this myself.

Does anyone around here have experience with hooking up 2 monitors to a macbook? I assumed I could use the existing displayport MST hub I used for the windows machine from work; it never worked on my MBA but that was a known issue, but even when an MBPro would support MST, it looks like it wouldn't work with the MST hub; I have no idea what the apple support page says. Apple support said something like this should work, but at some 200 euros, I'm looking for something that will work rather than something that should work.

[pablox-cl]

EDITED: pressed enter way too soon.

PS.- I'll donate to your work: You really deserve it.

[retorquere]

@pablox-cl is something in BBT not working as you expected? Please open a separate issue to describe your problem.

[steko]

Late here but I donated a few days ago (in line with my earlier proposal). Thanks for your great work on BBT!

[retorquere]

Yeah, you were right the first time 😃. I didn't want to ask for money for several reasons -- the main one being that many people that I know that use reference managers are struggling undergrads, and I'm doing OK myself, another that my schedule is absolutely nuts and I can't ever promise when things get done, so I felt uncomfortable asking for people's money for little concrete in return. I had forgotten though that I got my previous laptop through a windfall that I don't hope to get again¹. We're not in any kind of dire straights, but I can't justify dropping a lot of money on a hobby project.

---

¹ funny story. I have the odious individual who totaled my car and then tried to pin the blame and cost on me to thank for this -- the low-cost juridical support I have would usually have left me out to dry, as I filled out the form wrong so on paper I was out of luck, but took it all the way including interviewing witnesses after the realization sunk in with them that I was legitimately primarily upset that he tried to put the blame on me rather than stopping to think about the cost. It took in turn a while for me to understand when they explained to me the scrapes and bruises constituted injury, that he could be made to pay for this, and that this payment would not be covered by his insurance. And that this may in some part make good for the actual injury of unjustly blaming me for what happened. That found its way to the macbook air that I now use. Still 0/10 would not recommend.

Said witnesses were also very willing to fetch his tires late at night and sell them but luckily it never got to that. The idea pleased me for a bit, though.

[github-actions]

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