-
Notifications
You must be signed in to change notification settings - Fork 41
New issue
Have a question about this project? Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community.
By clicking “Sign up for GitHub”, you agree to our terms of service and privacy statement. We’ll occasionally send you account related emails.
Already on GitHub? Sign in to your account
What about black hat hacking? #73
Comments
I'm of two minds here. In most (all?) countries hacking is illegal and if you're already operating outside the law then you probably don't care about what the license of software you use to aid your hacking is. You'd have more luck enforcing criminal law and convicting for hacking than you would enforcing the incorrect use of software licensed under Do No Harm. But maybe there's wording that's a little broader and would encompasses uses that are inside the law here, and appreciate that there are other things included in the license that are also illegal or unlawful in some countries. If someone wants to suggest wording I think we can consider further. |
According to FindLaw,
I will look for a more detailed definition of hacking. |
How about this?
|
In the interest of simplicity I think if we include this we should be looking for broad wording, otherwise we start to get into debates at a level of detail that aren't helpful for the goal of the license. For example, to cover the whole realm of environmental protection in the license we have 4 simple points:
Perhaps this could be combined with #58 and we have a general clause on cyber? Something like: add to d: d. addictive or destructive products and services
|
I think we can go one step further with combining this issue, and issues #58 and #75 (because Google Analytics is technically surveillance, which itself deals with cybersecurity, as well). I still want to reiterate the reason why I created this issue in the first place. The reason is because a license like Do No Harm is useless and contradictory to its mission if it cannot defend the end user from attacks that could lead to identity theft or a grid outage at worst due to a phishing site for example. If a framework as complex as Angular or Svelte were used, then a hacker can easily fool the average person into entering in their credentials. Cyber warfare, data breaches, and other attacks are not to be taken lightly, especially right now when the stakes are at their highest. |
I'm not sure I'm understanding your intent. The license is designed to ensure that the efforts a developer has gone to in creating software they release into the world are not used for harm, the license does nothing to protect the users of tools themselves – so protecting a user from malware, surveillance or attacks is beyond the scope of what the license can achieve. The license is only able to say to the developers of software that may be malicious that they are not welcome to use code licensed with No Harm. |
A hacker can use software to harm millions of vulnerable people. Think about it. With today's modern technology, countries are at risk of having their energy grids taken out by black hats, and we now rely on these grids more than ever. Back in 2021, my state lost power for about a week due to a winter storm, and countless people died of trying to stay warm with almost three necessities going out. Now imagine the consequences of a hacker in Russia or Belarus hitting the power grid. Substations would be out for months, and without power, the modern metropolitan world would grind to a halt. All of this would result in no food and drinkable water at the dinner table and no heating and air to prevent our homes from freezing or burning up respectively. This basically results in the tragic deaths of countless civilians. |
I'm not disagreeing with you that hacking is bad! My suggestion above would disallow this:
However I was also just making the point that if someone is doing something illegal they probably don't care about what license their dependencies have so this is all fairly academic. |
That's a dangerous phrasing, since it might, unintentionally, target white-hat hacking software. A phrasing that targets the act of |
Merging #81:
|
@realpixelcode, @tommaitland, at least we have it in there as adeterrent. The licensor has the deterrents in the form of this license to have the legal grounds to perform audits themselves, or the GitHub staff could open the gates to potentially private repositories to allow investigators to find the perpetrator. Even state supported hacking should not go unchecked. |
@IRod22 I didn't mean vulnerabilities specifically in the licensed work, but generally in any software. |
Got it. Sorry. |
No worries :) |
I found a good source that has what we need. According to Fortinet:
With this info in mind, we want to focus on protecting the White Hats, and we want to disallow the black hats. I included grey hats in the quotation because their actions can be interpreted differently depending on who you ask, so we probably need to take grey hats into account as well IMO. We need to see how we can phrase all of this in a broader definition. |
A few ideas:
I know this is really long, but it's very difficult to define those terms in a concise manner. |
@realpixelcode I like the terminology, but the main difficulty is that this will be hard to integrate with issues #72 and #77 and consequently PRs #79 and #80. I think we need a third and a fourth opinion about the wording and to figure out how to integrate the definitions onto the license/summary. |
Since starting the NoHarm license the thing we've wanted to avoid is playing a game of whack-a-mole with all the things that could harm out there – as that would lead to a very large, very fragmented license. Instead, we take broad strokes of the things that are the most harmful, and where the license would have the most impact. For that reason I don't think we should be adding definitions on the different forms of hacking to the license – it's just way more specific than this license needs to get. I think adding So to summarise:
|
@tommaitland Got it. Do misinformation, illegal gambling, the black market, child pornography (I won't include a more simple term for the sake of sensitive and younger viewers), or any of these need to be included or are any of these covered by the license? |
The license already covers gambling but generally we’ve taken the approach that the license doesn’t need to cover things that are already generally illegal - as we don’t want or need the license to repeat criminal codes. That was also why I initially resisted hacking. Misinformation is something we’ve included in our version of the license at https://raisely.com/who but hasn’t made it here yet. |
Note that misinformation is not a synonym for deliberate disinformation. Possible definition:
|
Sorry fat fingered. The wording we’ve used in the past is not a definition, just a simple exclusion:
|
@tommaitland That looks good. @realpixelcode how does it look to you? |
I'd at least call it |
Good point @realpixelcode. We just need to see what @tommaitland thinks about that first. After that, we'll need to discuss how to integrate it into the license/summary and existing issues/PRs. |
I'd just like to quickly point out that instead of using the word "hacker" when you mean cybercriminal, instead just use cybercriminal. Hackers are just people who are curious, technical, and shouldn't be lumped together with criminals. |
Updated as GitHub Community is moving to GitHub Discussions
Overview
Since what has been going on in the past decade, especially with the Russo-Ukraine war, I've been noticing more cyber attacks lately on the news. If you all don't believe me, check out monitor.firefox.com/breaches to see how much damage has been caused by data breaches alone. I saw an even bigger loophole in the world of open source: a library/framework (ex. Angular, Lodash, Laravel, etc.) can be (ab)used not only by large organizations like Facebook, but individuals/groups as well. Essentially a developer's library/framework can be - and is probably being - used to cause massive collateral damage. For a library developer, knowing that they are enabling a hacker to cause more harm can be demoralizing.
Proposed Resolution
There's not much I can do here as I am not a legal expert, but I can tell you that there probably needs to be a way to make the vague concept of "no hacking/phishing[/...] allowed" into a less ambiguous phrase. However, I did post topics on Mozilla Discourse and GitHub Community (old) (new) that go deeper into the subject; these should help clarify the subject further.
Remarks
I would like to thank the group/organization behind this project for making a license for the greater good! I am hoping to make a few repos public, but I don't want to use current licenses that will allow harm.
The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: