phil

[email protected]: u know i just gotta get a point across while it's fresh in my mind live as far as i can tell has no meaning what we recognize as consciousness and life is just a mathematical abstract it's not really "concerned" with the human experience not to say it's pointless, but it's kind of like a fun ride once it's over, it's over you try to make the best of the ride, and enjoy it as much as you can, but after that you have to leave and go back to nothingness and eventually, laws of physics tell us that either 1. the sun will red giant and eat up all of earth or 2. eventual heat death adjacent galaxies, even stars, are prohititively far to travel to, even given the rules of general relativity so yeah, this is all meanginless, just a matter of how much fun you can have on the ride so the only meaning is has is a meaning you create in the few ~70 years you have, if youre lucky Sent at 9:39 PM on Thursday [email protected]: but 70 years, in comparison to all of humanity, and the existence of very interesting processes we've discovered to have taken place over time scales many orders larger than a human life, is really nothing so sometimes i just look at how long my somewhat miserable but interesting life is like here, and question why i continue to do it Sent at 9:41 PM on Thursday [email protected]: so i can have the ocasional good drink, meal, and drive in my car? all that is so unimportant and fleeting when considering the real scope of events that take place in hte universe as far as i can tell, death is the same state as what it is before being alive me: thats alot of stuff so lemme just reply to one part [email protected]: just nothing. no pain, no regret, no sorrow. what's wrong with that for eternity? maybe another 50 years of this same old shit while the universe continues to evolve in much more interesting ways me: "live as far as i can tell has no meaning" thats exactly wat steven weinberg said at the end of the first 3 mins i think he has since upgraded his feelings to something a bit more optimisitc let me trysomething interesting

[email protected]: well the way i look at it is neither optimistic or pessimistic. like how can you say you have an "optimistic" view of mathematics or physics it is what it is me: im not sure i agree with that or else, wats the difference between human and machine? in either case, take ur thoughts and start to condesne them https://github.com/jasonlarkin/recording/wiki/phil dont let these thoughts evaporate [email protected]: human is a very complex machine we dont have an understanding of yet me: thats ez to say most science and trends pt to that being true [email protected]: yes so thats why so far that is the most likely explanation me: but 500 years ago, the most likely expanation for the celestial mostions was F=ma alot has changed since then [email protected]: i really doubt any sort of magic that will demonstrate tht the human consiousness does indeed transcend the physics we know today me: what kind of expert are youto make such a claim? [email protected]: really, i think death is the same state we "experience" before life me: haha, im being alittle hard, but thats how u get somewhere in a convo

[email protected]: well i would say that there's more of a lack of evidence that supports my claim than evidence that supports the contrary thus far, any investigation has only indicated the lack of any mechanism that indicates the transcendence of the human consciousness however a fantastically complex mechanism it is consiousness demonstrably ends at the moment the mechanisms of the brain are destroyed Sent at 9:52 PM on Thursday me: perhaps the complexity itself is the trasncendance but there are def suggestions otherise, namely wolframs princple of computaional complexity Sent at 9:54 PM on Thursday me: edison was a dood who lived 100 years ago in a far diff time,but i think it was him who said something like "we dont know 1 percent of 1 percent of anything" [email protected]: yeah i agree me: while there may be no evidence to support a spiritual conscinous, we know so little about fundamental physic truly amazing things are just starting to come to light, namely many-worlds theory, the completion of the std model, and seraching for new mathematical paradigms that desribe new realities the incompleteness of std model with quanutm gravity [email protected]: how about information theory me: the implications at this pt are so astoudning well, information theory says that no inforamtion in the universe is lost the conditions around and inside balck holes seem to challenge this law and the resolution of the issue requires the marriage of QM with general realtivity its one of the hardest problems in current phsycis [email protected]: yeah i was actually reading about this earlier me: http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Bekenstein-Hawking_entropy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_information_paradox its sort of one of those probles that if "solved" will most likely be solved by the proper marriage of QM and GR its like the blackbody problem and QM QM properly came along and fixed the BB divergence [email protected]: i was thinkg of this earlier today what is the particle of interaction for gravity? me: the theoretical graviton its supposed to fit into the SM the Higgs boson gives particles their mass, those that have mass it also explains why the aprtialces that dont have mass, dont have mass [email protected]: ok and arent ther a lot o ftheoreticl problems w the graviton? me: and then massive particles are supposed to interact via the exhchange of gravitons of course or else it wud be solved [email protected]: hah so this is interesting as far as physics right now can tell me: theres actually a handful or problems with the SM

[email protected]: no one really knows what causes gravity? me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model#Challenges nobody knos how to explain gravity in the same framework as all the other forces and itneractions we know wat causes gravity under the rules of GR however, near and at a black hole the limts of the theory are tested becase space/time are compacted to an infinte pt there simply does not exist the mathematical tools to treat this and since things are smushed to a pt, necessarily QM shud come along so its just an example of humans pushing limits we have been doing so for 1000s of years and this is a new limit, and it will most likely be soled if given enuff researh time [email protected]: interesting me: like i said [email protected]: but consider my firsrt point me: the most important thing to me, given wat i know is to have as many ppl and as much money pouring into the right research [email protected]: this is all a mathematical abstract me: reality? [email protected]: i'm saying i think that the scale lengths and limitations of physics are unconcerned with the phenomenon of human intelligence and concsiousness the incidence of intelligence on earth is merely a minor instance in all of this me: well, human intelligence exists because of thoe limits, at least some if not all but, its the most profound thing in the universe a phenomena that can, essentially, decrease the entropy of their system who gives a shit about a blackhole, if there is no one to give a shit? [email protected]: yeah well who gives a shit about someone giving a shit? me: within the canon of human knowledege, we have essentially written down the code for the universe, up to this pt and to som limits and precision i do thats the pt i give a shit, bc ive been programmed to [email protected]: well i'm saying you can think it's very interesting, and i agree, but it seems like it's wholly inconsequential me: wat is more profound is, why have i arrived at this pt to give a shit? it isnt [email protected]: just because of mathematics me: it serves the purpose of allowing me to continue my quest why did a sterile mathematical universe make me (and you) to feel this way? [email protected]: it just had to me: not it didnt [email protected]: because it does

me: we can make lots of uiverses that do nothing this one made us its beautifully contradictory there is the one law that nobody rly undersatnd and might be the most impotant, 2nd law thermo entropy uni always + but it seems this uni spawned us, and wud say the most interesting thing about us is, we have found a way to decrease the entropy, if only in our system all the laws and math are compactification of the large amount of information (entropy) in the uni the std model lagrangian fits on one overhead slide the mathematical frameowk sits in books, or on wiki watson computer was able to play jopeardy using a supercomputer cluster with some 16 TB not infty TB so, i wud say there is a great pt to us if only to continue this process [email protected]: what is this process? me: to continue to compaticty the information the scientiic process i agree with u about the ptlessness driving ur car, making dinner, etc but not when put into the context of science ill try and respond to ur earlier comments cus even the eventual heat-death is not apparent there is alot of controversey over wat the ultimate fate of uni will be not to mention the implications of many-worlds theories, antrhopic pirincple for unis and black holes [email protected]: either way, we'll have to evacuate earth in a few billion me: perhaps or something else extraordinay will have occured my gawd, 2 bil years? there wont even be an us just one conciousness perhaps a total reboot, well be runing simulation of other beings [email protected]: somtimes it just fascinated me to look at the stuff tht makes me up me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Smolin [email protected]: all of the elements, compounds me: haha, like that BB scene? thers something missing...the soul? fucking kunt gretchen i think she was copying his HW

[email protected]: yeah me: and so u are just some information like ur those atoms, but not exactly those atoms bc in QM, the current state of the uni the uni wavefunction is a fucntion dependent on all particles in the uni simultaneouly when u and i are in a room, we are not seprarte even tho we can consider ourselves to be in soe limit there are more prfound phenomena that demonstrate this, namely the double-slit experiment, quantum entagnelemtn, etc and we dont even undertsand that fully so, i am more rreluctatnt, now than evre, to make any claim about really anyhting until the science hascome in i used to feel much the way u are expressing now [email protected]: but given what you know now me: ya, thats dangerous to play with but i undetsand ur pt [email protected]: what is your best guess me: probabyl "concosioness" will end at death but wat doest that even mean? just conciousness in terms of our perception of this reality? and wat realiyty does this reality exist under? this are rly questions that are so far beyond even the fringe of wat we DONT kno however, and i thank u for bringing all of this up we have a shot of tackling alot of these issues, in our lifetime if we increase the rate constants everywhere and if we make better decisions about where the ppl and funds go for reaserch IF, we all agree on smore more well-defined goals i dont see that leadership, except in more boring subjects like the energy engr sector, they have well-defgined goal lets make all energy sources as efficient as we can, and lets push for the most green and efficient sources possible ok, so why are we doing that? well, so we can continue research in all fields, not just energy i mean who gievs fuck about energy if not for wat it provides elsewhere? and so wats the pt of all research? control, reducing the entropy, writing down the code why? so we can live longer to find out more of the code that shud be the goal of all research and the goals shud become more specialized where needed the benefit to the rest of life (recreation, etc) follows from figuring out this code

[email protected]: it's a lot to think about idk im just feeling really pointless lateley me: it is, but there is that one glaring problem i see that requries no more thought ya i know how u fell, i feel like that conatsntly its a mixture of resaerch stress, not knowing how to do wat uve been asked i know how hard it is to write th frsit paper, i think it took me 20 drafts u have no idea how to phrase urself, cus ur not an expert and ur so worred about saying something dumb all i can say is its something that goes away with experience it cud also be that u dont like wut ur doing, idk? i mean for me its all that, i hate this shit bc i have come up with wat my scientific philosphy is i want scientific progress to work as efficiently as it can, bc I presonally want to see as many results as I can before i die its the wants of the individual pushing the progress of the whole and i think research without this goal is ptless ppl must have t resort to religion to calm themselves cus if i get stuck studying some shit subject that is only incrementally improving, ill shoot myself how is it that u fell? why do u feel ptless? the first step to recovery is admitting u have a prob i guess uve done that part also maybe im a bad influence on u haha, ignorance is bliss? or maybeu wud arrive at this pt onur own Sent at 10:30 PM on Thursday me: ur not alone, like i said weinberg said almost the same words in the final paragraph of first 3 mins and that dood is smarter than u and i and 10 million others put together