Replies: 45 comments 10 replies
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One way that could probably speed up Alt+Tab would be to allow scrolling across the opened apps, just like you can scroll across workspaces in the overview |
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It's a bit hard to talk about this without a visual. |
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That's why there's "needs design" label.
Expose is not alt+tab. You can't cycle through all the windows quickly with keyboard (although we could take that into consideration). |
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I've been looking into this and I stumbled across this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJDepv2ftU4 which seems to address what is discussed here (and provides a visual). Did gala ever function like this where all windows were visible during alt-tab? For reference the current behavior in gala that I have is like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9tcsOjUgK0 which makes it hard to put the focused window in context with the rest of the windows because all other windows disappear during alt-tab. |
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I like what Ubuntu has done in Gnome: https://didrocks.fr/2017/09/14/ubuntu-gnome-shell-in-artful-day-12/ |
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I think for the better scroll/view of the windows there is a |
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@alexbhandari there's a vestigial gsettings key at |
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@Nine-H thanks! I find that with the increased opacity alt-tab is more intuitive, but I see what you mean in terms of it being a little janky in some instances |
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I've pushed an experimental, prototype branch here if anyone wants to test it out: https://github.com/donadigo/gala-alt-tab-window-preview |
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I used @donadigo and I like the concept better than the original. But I found few issues with it (may be better call them quirks)
But this is a really good start |
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@mahajanudit the repo I linked above is an experimental branch, it doesn't get everything right, but it should act more as a mockup. |
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Agreed, looks really good. |
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What if the windows would be grouped by application, but unlike other switchers the windows of same apps would be stacked like cards. Like this Alt+Tab/Alt+Shift+Tab or left/right would select an app and Alt+Key above tab or up/down would select a window in a stack by bringing it forward. Fast Alt+Tab wouldn't show the window switcher, but would switch to the next window. I still think that it would be better to have a simpler window switcher like gnome or mac. merge all the overviews (selected workspace windows/all windows/workspace overview) and add keyboard shortcuts with a good visual indicator when an app is selected. |
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@attila123 it is a must for you, but not necessarily for everyone. People use what they want here in Linux. Whatever works for you, use it. So if you like it the way you have it, why bother switching to Elementary, if you got what you need. Just install Plank, and configure your bar to have similar layout to Elementary. |
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The idea would be to press fast when you wanted to go to the last window selected. If an user needed to go to another window (press more than two times), it would give a visual cue (overview). The zooming argument is interesting. I didn't thought of that. You're probably right. One thing I'm sure is that it would still be cool to have the ability to use Alt+Tab and Super+Tab on the multitasking view. |
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But that's what I meant - sometimes I skip multiple workspaces with Super+Tab, because it's very fast and I can do it with one hand. If it opened overview, that would be slower and quite distracting, imho.
I agree, I miss Super+Tab in overview a lot. |
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Just for context the two most common alt-tab switchers are Mac and Window. I'm not advocating we copy them, only that they each provide a example we can use to discuss and critique. Windows:
Mac
Elementary Today
The differences when laid out like this are pretty clear: elementary is more of a "1-at-a-time switcher" while Win/Mac offer more of an "Overview Picker". Here is what I heard above that people would like to see:
I'm happy to mock up a range of visuals (not a single solution) to be discussed further. But it's clear there are a lot of constraints. Anything I missed? |
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Nice overview :)
I just want to note that, in my view, grouping windows of same app under one icon in switcher will completely break my alt-tabbing workflows and I would have to abandon elementary and look for something else (I don't believe the devs would implement a toggle for this, as the two models are quite different in how they behave). I used to disable grouping wherever it was possible (e.g. GNOME) and really loved the fact it's not present in elementary. |
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I appreciate this can't just be visually pleasing, it also has to be efficient and quick. It's not an accident that both Mac and Win have zero animation: it's much faster. I'm hoping we can have style and speed. Some obvious things to keep the animation but make it faster:
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@scottjenson thanks for tackling this! This looks like a great starting point, and I really appreciate the motion mockups; that makes it so much easier to track and discuss. My main concern so far is what you've addressed regarding the speed; just tapping Alt+Tab to get to the last-focused app seems to be really common for workflow anecdotally and personally. I think reducing the animation is probably necessary in general, but dropping/significantly speeding it up on release of both Alt and Tab is probably a good in-between while keeping the Alt+Tab+Tab+Tab to switch through multiple windows feeling nice. As a sort of side-note, we use Material Design inspired values for widget animations in the stylesheet. I am not sure what Material generally says about these sort of larger animations, but I do feel like generally we keep things around or under 300ms to feel snappy. Here are the current constants used in Gala: Lines 20 to 33 in 49d1d8f My other main concern is around the size of the previews; if I have two large Code windows open, they're gonna look almost identical at that size. I wonder if we should consider larger previews with some overlap like in @danrabbit's previous mockup. I'm pretty open to discussion, though, as that would consequently mean fitting fewer windows on screen at once and obscuring parts of the window previews in the trade-off for larger previews.
I think this would be as performant as our other window animations, e.g. the workspace-focused multitasking overview. I don't see any inherent issues with it.
Hard for me to answer personally, but I suspect so. A common complaint I hear is that the order feels unpredictable—I think because people don't see the dock or associate the disconnected app icons strongly with the windows themselves, and our current window previews don't indicate the order at all. This pretty neatly solves it by making the window previews linear. It does also feel more similar to other platforms and like it's not trying to be "clever" by re-using the dock.
I think that's actually probably the wrong direction specifically… we have the multitasking overview which gives you a complete spread of open windows and allows for quick closing. I think trying to hold Alt+Tab and then perform actions is just going to get overcomplicated. But that's future talk, anyway. :) |
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After discussing this in the Slack channel we settled on a few next steps:
Action item for me was to use real windows this time and create a 'next step' animation and see how it feels. Rinse, repeat. |
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OK, here is my next version, following a layout suggestion from @danrabbit Changes from previous version:
This feels much faster yet keeps a nice "ElementaryOS" look and style to it (but I'm new here so please give feedback on the visual design) What I will say is that it's fairly LARGE and that feels like the next issue we should discuss. Should the Alt-Tab window be only the last X windows and we optimize for that? Or should this scale to 20 windows? That seems like the next core question for us to answer. |
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@scottjenson I'm really liking where this is heading. I think I'm confident enough in this direction that we could start prototyping it—@davidmhewitt wants to rework window switching for technical reasons, anyway, so starting here is better than wasting time re-making the current design. I think we'll want to pay attention to and tweak on thumbnail sizes, animations speeds and curves, etc. But that can be done relatively easily with a working prototype. Something I do think we should consider is whether all apps should be scaled evenly (i.e. all at 10% of their original size or whatever they show here), or if they should scale to fit within a certain area. I am leaning toward the latter; in your example, see Calculator. To me, it feels awkward that it could be both taller and wider to better fill that space, which would probably help identifying some smaller windows especially. But perhaps that will also come when addressing the extremes. This may just be an artifact of the prototype, but window labels should all be left-aligned in this layout. Just as an aside, the OS does have a user-selectable "accent color" we can use in these designs; it's the blue palette by default, but a user can choose between any of the colors here: If you find yourself needing a color (especially for representing highlighted or active things), this might be a nice place to use a subtle accent to bring that color more into their experience. |
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here's a quick mock showing apps trying to take up the same width instead of scaling at the same rate: |
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I feel some of these mock-ups don't feel quite at-home in elementary. Combining some existing design elements, like Show All Windows layout and current window switcher's shading on unfocused apps might help ground this in the system better. I've got a quick sketch here, I'm not much of a Gimp pro haha. The main details I think make this fit in well are
Something I didn't illustrate right was Wingpanel transparency, which should just take the system default. @danrabbit's mock does this well. Anyway, that's what I have to offer here. |
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Hi all, I’m coming into this rather late, apologies. I started using elementary OS a few weeks ago and, as I told Daniel on our live stream (https://small-tech.org/events/small-is-beautiful/) I’m absolutely in awe of what you’ve created and hugely hopeful of the direction you’re taking with developing a sustainable open ecosystem that will hopefully one day give developers a viable alternative to the closed silos of Apple, etc. Now, to the topic at hand: alt + tab. Unfiltered initial thoughts when I first encountered it: “What the fuck just happened? Why is everything moving around?” Basically:
Within the context of the above three points, I would highly urge you to consider not scaling down the windows but using icons instead. I know it’s not as fancy-looking but hear me out. This is what I’ve started using for myself: https://github.com/markstory/gala-alt-tab-plus If you look at it, you’ll probably think it resembles the macOS switcher and that’s not a bad thing. It’s definitely not perfect (I don’t want to think about where my apps are – i.e., which workspace, etc. – when I’m alt + tabbing but currently it is only limited to the current workspace and my current workaround is not to use workspaces.) So, what I feel this switcher does right:
So, please, please, please, do not cause a full-screen animation every time I press alt + tab. The animation is very pretty but it does not add any semantic value whatsoever and instead adds a huge amount of noise. Please make alt + tab a calm, quick, gesture with low conginitive load. If there’s anything I can do to help with this, please let me know. And thanks again for the amazing work you’re doing. It’s truly inspirational :) 💕️ |
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Joining this convo, as I have a few gripes with the Alt Tab behavior of eOS.
A number of the mocks here look like that's the general direction that eOS is taking the Alt Tab subsystem, putting that list of apps to scroll through in the middle of the display, and allowing keyed scrolling but I cant tell if that's already released or not? As for people's concerns on the "full screen view", I think they mean that when pressing Alt Tab in these proposed designs, all open windows kind of disappear, or become mostly transparent, with a full screen overlay thing that gets presented which has all the open windows there, and then repeatedly pressing Tab while holding Alt will keep that overlay showing and have some animation affordance that shows your current selection in the context of all the windows, and then releasing Alt will pick that selected window to focus on. For these concerns, can we As for the icons vs actual window contents view question, can we do both? I think that's what Gnome does, you get the window contents scaled down plus the icon at the bottom of that thumbnail. Also, I tried looking at Aza Raskin's blog post that Dan linked but the server was down, so I googled it, and found this other blog post as a response to Aza's post. This post has a lot of interesting history and behavior of Alt Tab spelled out, across platforms: |
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While the current presentation of windows in trunk's Alt+Tab got better I think we should consider redesigning the Alt+Tab behaviour further. The main problem with the current behaviour:
Windows are covered by themselves: this leaves user without knowledge what windows he has opened and how do they look like. If he wants to know, he has to cycle through all of them. Currently we have a dock-like clone on the bottom that shows the current applications open but this solves issue only partially, there could be multiple windows attached to the application. This also:
It is significantly faster and easier (at least for me) to switch to a desired window when I see it immediately after pressing Alt+Tab. You can easily see how much time it takes for you to recognize the window you want to switch to: just compare the current Super+A (expose all windows) behaviour with the Alt+Tab one. Please discuss in the comments.
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