Replies: 10 comments 17 replies
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@czarakas & @aswann can you get a sense of the strength of parameters in controlling the EOF regionally from your PPE work, specifically in the tropics? |
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Potentially useful here are the regional climatology here for the Amazon in an B_beta04_clm6BGC (red) and F_beta04_clm6SP (blue) caseAnd for the same B_beta04_clm6BGC (red) with an I_clm6BGC (blue) case@dlawrenncar, I guess we'll have to se if an F_beta04_clm6BGC case replicated the behaviors that we're seeing in the B-case? |
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Here is one map of change in precip for each ensemble member in the CESM2 PPE that Claire ran. The file was too big to upload so I cut it into three pieces |
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Yes! If you want to dive right in the output is here: It would probably be useful if @czarakas or I could provide you with some scripts to get started but I don't have those prepared. At a minimum you can find which run is which with this table: I could probably make some more plots of other variables like the ones of RAIN for kmax above without too much trouble if you let me know what you want to look at. |
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Interesting. Or nstem seems like another candidate. I wonder if changing
nstem would have less of an impact on GPP, so more focused on the water /
energy budget?
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Hit those Luna parameters to influence clouds! Am I seeing this right?
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b.e30_beta04.BLT1850.ne30_t232_wgx3.120 (NCAR/cesm_dev#25) had run 16 years by last night so I ran lnd diagnostics compared to b.e30_beta04.BLT1850.ne30_t232_wgx3.118 (NCAR/cesm_dev#23) . Thus showing the effect of land initial conditions: It looks like TLAI in the Amazon starts off with values of 4-5 in the first year but then dies off to the level we see in 118. Here is the annual mean for the first year of 120 (ncview /glade/derecho/scratch/oleson/ANALYSIS/climo/b.e30_beta04.BLT1850.ne30_t232_wgx3.120_7_16/FV_192x288_b.e30_beta04.BLT1850.ne30_t232_wgx3.120_7_16_ANN_ALL.nc) And the annual mean trend in the Amazon: |
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Yikes - so if it's not an initial conditions problem, and this same parameterization of tropical trees gives use LAI's of >10 in F-cases and I-Cases, can we attribute it to the dry bias in CESM and the high water use I've prescribed for tropical trees? initial ideas:
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Thanks for posting these, @olyson. I don't think this is an issue we need to fix, @linniahawkins, as it seems more like an issue with how much moisture is coming into the Amazon that's keeping it too hot and dry. What do you think @dlawrenncar ? |
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@olyson @wwieder It does seem like this is most likely a coupled model problem. To the extent that we have the right diagnostics, can you trace back to which coupled model tag / simulation this dry bias starts to show up? I'm guessing that it will be with the new beta04 tag, but we should confirm. If beta04, then we probably need to have a conversation as a CESM group about what could be the source (especially since this is not apparent in F-cases). It does seem pretty unlikely that land parameters or processes are playing a dominant role, especially since we cannot reproduce the problem in the F cases. |
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I'll note that between 111 and 112 we also move from CTSM5.2 datasets/parameters to 5.3, with new parameterization for tropical forests and a new fire model! I've also started a focused discussion for tropical LAI and mid-latitude shortwave biases on the CESM_dev discussions. |
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A few issues with the latest coupled model runs, that have been discussed at the CESM project meeting and CAM7 meeting.
Trying to take some notes here and start a discussion to see if the land model may have any role to play here? Notably,
At this point it's not clear if the high RESTOM in cesm_dev 116 could be connected to these regional biases in the Amazon. It's also not clear if land model parameterizations have caused, or could help address, either RESTOM or climatological issues?. NOTE: high restom seems like a persistent feature of #116 that's better in subsequent B-cases
We do have some suggestions from recent work by @czarakas and friends suggests that land model parameters can influence regional precipitation. How much can land model parameters help bring back rains (and clouds) over the Amazon, or reduce incoming SW that hits the land in mid-latitudes?
Amazon biases were investigated with F-cases, see #76 and #77.
Mid-latitude clouds / incoming solar was investigated with #78-81
If you're still interested here are some additional places to look at LMWG diagnostics
Relevant Land Diagnostics
B-116 vs. I-5.3
B-116 vs. B-112
B-112 vs. B-111
B-116 vs. F-0008, the F-case is a CLM6-SP case
Lots of LMWG diagnostics posted from B cases here (thanks @olyson)
Notes on the dry amazon bias
@adamrher, @dlawrenncar, @linniahawkins, @djk2120, @katiedagon, @aswann, @czarakas, @olyson, @slevis-lmwg
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